Discussion:
JAP2A flywheel magneto
(too old to reply)
kingsnavy
2003-11-22 10:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Dear All.

Having gained the confidence to grind values I have started to de-coke and
grind the valves on a JAP2A engine. The manual says "remove the flywheel
using the special extractor tool". Can I do this without this tool please ?
In addition how do I time the engine once I remove the magneto - are there
timing marks?

Regards,
Ian.
Matt Keeling
2003-11-22 20:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by kingsnavy
Dear All.
Having gained the confidence to grind values I have started to de-coke
and grind the valves on a JAP2A engine. The manual says "remove the
flywheel using the special extractor tool". Can I do this without this
tool please ? In addition how do I time the engine once I remove the
magneto - are there timing marks?
Regards,
Ian.
Ian,
The JAP 2A manual I have describes undoing the bolt to remove the starter
pulley, then drawing off the flywheel with a puller. If no puller is
available the manual states that the flywheel should be "grasped firmly and
then whilst attempting to pull it off, tapping the end of the crankshaft
with a mallet or lead hammer"

When re-timing the engine and no timing marks are visible: With the head
removed and the flywheel loosely fitted (so it can spin round without
turning the engine over), set the piston so it is 3/16" before TDC and
rotate the flywheel until the contact breaker points are just starting to
open. The flywheel should then be tightened and hopefully you will have a
spark 3/16" BTDC.

Best Regards, Matt
J K Siddorn
2003-11-23 13:05:29 UTC
Permalink
For many years I used to get motorcycle/moped flywheel mags apart by the
following method. You CAN do it unaided, but it's so much easier with a
friend.

Before you do anything else, mark the flywheel/crankcase to be able to
re-assemble it correctly if there is no keyway. I used to mark top dead
centre AND points opening, but it really doesn't matter as long as you have
a reference point.

Back off the flywheel nut but leave it in place on the shaft.. Some have a
captive nut and are self extracting. Obviously, if yours has this feature
you can stop reading now, but it was such a good idea they stopped doing it!

Figure out where the coils are and avoid them. Place a short round ended
tyre lever under the flywheel rim where there is nothing to damage and apply
light pressure to the end of the lever. Light pressure, I said ;o))

Ideally, you should use a big socket that will surround the inside edge of
the flywheel, but you can use a drift of substantial proportions direct
against the inner part of the flywheel as close to the shaft end as possible
if absolutely necessary. Strike the drift a sharp blow once or twice and
the flywheel should magically come free, the loose nut preventing it from
falling to the floor. The nut will also protect the shaft end if you are
clumsy!

For my money, I'll never willingly strike the end of a shaft with a hammer
of any kind, lead, cloth, leather or whatever. Beyond the flywheel there may
be a ball race and a blow to the shaft can shatter the outer race.

The reasoning is that the blow will drive the flywheel slightly further onto
its taper and it will momentarily spring open to accommodate this. The
slight application of force at the flywheel rim has the dual purpose of
applying a twisting force and encouraging the female taper to continue to
relax as it looses contact with the male shaft.

And rest.

I stress that the force applied with the tyre lever should only be slight -
say enough to crush a fag packet.

Usual disclaimers!

Regards,

Kim Siddorn
kingsnavy
2003-11-23 19:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Ok - I managed to remove the flywheel with a small puller.

Kim - good point about the coil as I slightly clipped it trying to remove
the flywheel, it looks ok to me as I only damaged the outer black casing.

I removed the stator.

I can't remove the crank case cover plate to get at the valve pins until I
remove the small flywheel key - you've guessed it, this is proving to be
problematic. I've tried heating the surrounding metal but it refuses to
budge.

Any idea as the best way to tackle this please?

Thanks,
Ian.
Post by J K Siddorn
For many years I used to get motorcycle/moped flywheel mags apart by the
following method. You CAN do it unaided, but it's so much easier with a
friend.
Before you do anything else, mark the flywheel/crankcase to be able to
re-assemble it correctly if there is no keyway. I used to mark top dead
centre AND points opening, but it really doesn't matter as long as you have
a reference point.
Back off the flywheel nut but leave it in place on the shaft.. Some have a
captive nut and are self extracting. Obviously, if yours has this feature
you can stop reading now, but it was such a good idea they stopped doing it!
Figure out where the coils are and avoid them. Place a short round ended
tyre lever under the flywheel rim where there is nothing to damage and apply
light pressure to the end of the lever. Light pressure, I said ;o))
Ideally, you should use a big socket that will surround the inside edge of
the flywheel, but you can use a drift of substantial proportions direct
against the inner part of the flywheel as close to the shaft end as possible
if absolutely necessary. Strike the drift a sharp blow once or twice and
the flywheel should magically come free, the loose nut preventing it from
falling to the floor. The nut will also protect the shaft end if you are
clumsy!
For my money, I'll never willingly strike the end of a shaft with a hammer
of any kind, lead, cloth, leather or whatever. Beyond the flywheel there may
be a ball race and a blow to the shaft can shatter the outer race.
The reasoning is that the blow will drive the flywheel slightly further onto
its taper and it will momentarily spring open to accommodate this. The
slight application of force at the flywheel rim has the dual purpose of
applying a twisting force and encouraging the female taper to continue to
relax as it looses contact with the male shaft.
And rest.
I stress that the force applied with the tyre lever should only be slight -
say enough to crush a fag packet.
Usual disclaimers!
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
Campingstoveman
2003-11-23 21:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Is it a woodruff key i.e. half round if so tap underneath and it will lift
up.
Square type use small vice grips and tap grips with mallet.
drill and tap key and use slide hammer.

They should keep you busy.

Martin P
Post by kingsnavy
Ok - I managed to remove the flywheel with a small puller.
Kim - good point about the coil as I slightly clipped it trying to remove
the flywheel, it looks ok to me as I only damaged the outer black casing.
I removed the stator.
I can't remove the crank case cover plate to get at the valve pins until I
remove the small flywheel key - you've guessed it, this is proving to be
problematic. I've tried heating the surrounding metal but it refuses to
budge.
Any idea as the best way to tackle this please?
Thanks,
Ian.
Post by J K Siddorn
For many years I used to get motorcycle/moped flywheel mags apart by the
following method. You CAN do it unaided, but it's so much easier with a
friend.
Before you do anything else, mark the flywheel/crankcase to be able to
re-assemble it correctly if there is no keyway. I used to mark top dead
centre AND points opening, but it really doesn't matter as long as you
have
Post by J K Siddorn
a reference point.
Back off the flywheel nut but leave it in place on the shaft.. Some have a
captive nut and are self extracting. Obviously, if yours has this feature
you can stop reading now, but it was such a good idea they stopped doing
it!
Post by J K Siddorn
Figure out where the coils are and avoid them. Place a short round ended
tyre lever under the flywheel rim where there is nothing to damage and
apply
Post by J K Siddorn
light pressure to the end of the lever. Light pressure, I said ;o))
Ideally, you should use a big socket that will surround the inside edge of
the flywheel, but you can use a drift of substantial proportions direct
against the inner part of the flywheel as close to the shaft end as
possible
Post by J K Siddorn
if absolutely necessary. Strike the drift a sharp blow once or twice and
the flywheel should magically come free, the loose nut preventing it from
falling to the floor. The nut will also protect the shaft end if you are
clumsy!
For my money, I'll never willingly strike the end of a shaft with a hammer
of any kind, lead, cloth, leather or whatever. Beyond the flywheel there
may
Post by J K Siddorn
be a ball race and a blow to the shaft can shatter the outer race.
The reasoning is that the blow will drive the flywheel slightly further
onto
Post by J K Siddorn
its taper and it will momentarily spring open to accommodate this. The
slight application of force at the flywheel rim has the dual purpose of
applying a twisting force and encouraging the female taper to continue to
relax as it looses contact with the male shaft.
And rest.
I stress that the force applied with the tyre lever should only be
slight -
Post by J K Siddorn
say enough to crush a fag packet.
Usual disclaimers!
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
kingsnavy
2003-11-24 07:43:31 UTC
Permalink
It is the square type. Will try a small vice.
Regards,
Ian.
Post by Campingstoveman
Is it a woodruff key i.e. half round if so tap underneath and it will lift
up.
Square type use small vice grips and tap grips with mallet.
drill and tap key and use slide hammer.
They should keep you busy.
Martin P
Post by kingsnavy
Ok - I managed to remove the flywheel with a small puller.
Kim - good point about the coil as I slightly clipped it trying to remove
the flywheel, it looks ok to me as I only damaged the outer black casing.
I removed the stator.
I can't remove the crank case cover plate to get at the valve pins until I
remove the small flywheel key - you've guessed it, this is proving to be
problematic. I've tried heating the surrounding metal but it refuses to
budge.
Any idea as the best way to tackle this please?
Thanks,
Ian.
Post by J K Siddorn
For many years I used to get motorcycle/moped flywheel mags apart by the
following method. You CAN do it unaided, but it's so much easier with a
friend.
Before you do anything else, mark the flywheel/crankcase to be able to
re-assemble it correctly if there is no keyway. I used to mark top dead
centre AND points opening, but it really doesn't matter as long as you
have
Post by J K Siddorn
a reference point.
Back off the flywheel nut but leave it in place on the shaft.. Some
have
Post by Campingstoveman
a
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
captive nut and are self extracting. Obviously, if yours has this
feature
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
you can stop reading now, but it was such a good idea they stopped doing
it!
Post by J K Siddorn
Figure out where the coils are and avoid them. Place a short round ended
tyre lever under the flywheel rim where there is nothing to damage and
apply
Post by J K Siddorn
light pressure to the end of the lever. Light pressure, I said ;o))
Ideally, you should use a big socket that will surround the inside
edge
Post by Campingstoveman
of
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
the flywheel, but you can use a drift of substantial proportions direct
against the inner part of the flywheel as close to the shaft end as
possible
Post by J K Siddorn
if absolutely necessary. Strike the drift a sharp blow once or twice
and
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
the flywheel should magically come free, the loose nut preventing it
from
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
falling to the floor. The nut will also protect the shaft end if you are
clumsy!
For my money, I'll never willingly strike the end of a shaft with a
hammer
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
of any kind, lead, cloth, leather or whatever. Beyond the flywheel there
may
Post by J K Siddorn
be a ball race and a blow to the shaft can shatter the outer race.
The reasoning is that the blow will drive the flywheel slightly further
onto
Post by J K Siddorn
its taper and it will momentarily spring open to accommodate this. The
slight application of force at the flywheel rim has the dual purpose of
applying a twisting force and encouraging the female taper to continue
to
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
relax as it looses contact with the male shaft.
And rest.
I stress that the force applied with the tyre lever should only be
slight -
Post by J K Siddorn
say enough to crush a fag packet.
Usual disclaimers!
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
Kingsnavy
2003-11-24 11:19:30 UTC
Permalink
It worked!
Thanks,
Ian.
Post by kingsnavy
It is the square type. Will try a small vice.
Regards,
Ian.
Post by Campingstoveman
Is it a woodruff key i.e. half round if so tap underneath and it will lift
up.
Square type use small vice grips and tap grips with mallet.
drill and tap key and use slide hammer.
They should keep you busy.
Martin P
Post by kingsnavy
Ok - I managed to remove the flywheel with a small puller.
Kim - good point about the coil as I slightly clipped it trying to
remove
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
the flywheel, it looks ok to me as I only damaged the outer black
casing.
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
I removed the stator.
I can't remove the crank case cover plate to get at the valve pins until
I
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
remove the small flywheel key - you've guessed it, this is proving to be
problematic. I've tried heating the surrounding metal but it refuses to
budge.
Any idea as the best way to tackle this please?
Thanks,
Ian.
Post by J K Siddorn
For many years I used to get motorcycle/moped flywheel mags apart by
the
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
following method. You CAN do it unaided, but it's so much easier with
a
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
friend.
Before you do anything else, mark the flywheel/crankcase to be able to
re-assemble it correctly if there is no keyway. I used to mark top
dead
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
centre AND points opening, but it really doesn't matter as long as you
have
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
a reference point.
Back off the flywheel nut but leave it in place on the shaft.. Some
have
a
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
captive nut and are self extracting. Obviously, if yours has this
feature
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
you can stop reading now, but it was such a good idea they stopped
doing
it!
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
Figure out where the coils are and avoid them. Place a short round
ended
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
tyre lever under the flywheel rim where there is nothing to damage and
apply
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
light pressure to the end of the lever. Light pressure, I said ;o))
Ideally, you should use a big socket that will surround the inside
edge
of
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
the flywheel, but you can use a drift of substantial proportions
direct
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
against the inner part of the flywheel as close to the shaft end as
possible
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
if absolutely necessary. Strike the drift a sharp blow once or twice
and
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
the flywheel should magically come free, the loose nut preventing it
from
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
falling to the floor. The nut will also protect the shaft end if you
are
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
clumsy!
For my money, I'll never willingly strike the end of a shaft with a
hammer
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
of any kind, lead, cloth, leather or whatever. Beyond the flywheel
there
may
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
be a ball race and a blow to the shaft can shatter the outer race.
The reasoning is that the blow will drive the flywheel slightly
further
onto
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
its taper and it will momentarily spring open to accommodate this. The
slight application of force at the flywheel rim has the dual purpose
of
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
applying a twisting force and encouraging the female taper to continue
to
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
relax as it looses contact with the male shaft.
And rest.
I stress that the force applied with the tyre lever should only be
slight -
Post by Campingstoveman
Post by kingsnavy
Post by J K Siddorn
say enough to crush a fag packet.
Usual disclaimers!
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
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