Lister CS...Urgent advice needed........Emergency Stop

[Algernon]

Hope to try cranking up my CS this weekend. I have overhauled the
pump (totally seized...rack bent so it needed doing), and I have not
run it before.

Concern now is that it may be assembled wrong. Everything looked OK
although some of the timing marks weren't where they were supposed to
be. I think it is right, but just in case............

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CS IN A RUNAWAY SITUATION????

Possibilities being considered:-

1 Use the exhaust valve lifter. (Can this be done?)
2 Half open the compression changeover. (Will this stop the engine?)
3 Loosen the injector pipe (Can I find the spanner without panicking?)

I really don't want to put my foot in the flywheel :)

Alan

PS. See how optimistic I can be...I actually believe it might just
fire up :)

[Prepair Ltd]

Post by Algernon
Hope to try cranking up my CS this weekend. I have overhauled the
pump (totally seized...rack bent so it needed doing), and I have not
run it before.
Concern now is that it may be assembled wrong. Everything looked OK
although some of the timing marks weren't where they were supposed to
be. I think it is right, but just in case............
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CS IN A RUNAWAY SITUATION????
Possibilities being considered:-
1 Use the exhaust valve lifter. (Can this be done?)
2 Half open the compression changeover. (Will this stop the engine?)
3 Loosen the injector pipe (Can I find the spanner without panicking?)
I really don't want to put my foot in the flywheel :)
Alan
PS. See how optimistic I can be...I actually believe it might just
fire up :)

If you think it is going to run away then better not start it in the first
place.

The exhaust valve lifter is probably the best thing initially, then get the
injector pipe off while it is running down, as sufficient fuel in the chamber
may cause problems if the revs are high enough and fuel is still coming in at
full throttle.

Did you check the assembly against the pictures on our (home) website?

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK
***@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by Prepair Ltd
If you think it is going to run away then better not start it in the
first place.

He he, and only give it the minimum amout of fuel your can get away with.
Mind I surprised how long an ancient and worn out (sadly) Honda ran on
just it's float chamber of fuel the other day.

[Algernon]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:10:34 +0100, Prepair Ltd

Post by Prepair Ltd

Post by Algernon
Hope to try cranking up my CS this weekend. I have overhauled the
pump (totally seized...rack bent so it needed doing), and I have not
run it before.
Concern now is that it may be assembled wrong. Everything looked OK
although some of the timing marks weren't where they were supposed to
be. I think it is right, but just in case............
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CS IN A RUNAWAY SITUATION????
Possibilities being considered:-
1 Use the exhaust valve lifter. (Can this be done?)
2 Half open the compression changeover. (Will this stop the engine?)
3 Loosen the injector pipe (Can I find the spanner without panicking?)
I really don't want to put my foot in the flywheel :)
Alan
PS. See how optimistic I can be...I actually believe it might just
fire up :)

If you think it is going to run away then better not start it in the first
place.
The exhaust valve lifter is probably the best thing initially, then get the
injector pipe off while it is running down, as sufficient fuel in the chamber
may cause problems if the revs are high enough and fuel is still coming in at
full throttle.
Did you check the assembly against the pictures on our (home) website?
Peter

Thanks Peter,

I can't find the assy pics on your website, but I have checked against
the CAV manual. I think it is OK, but the timing marks on the rack
and pinion seem a little different from the ones shown.

I will rotate the engine by hand a few times first and see that the
pump doesn't pump in the stop position before I give it a go.

Regards

Alan

[Prepair Ltd]

Post by Algernon
I can't find the assy pics on your website, but I have checked against
the CAV manual. I think it is OK, but the timing marks on the rack
and pinion seem a little different from the ones shown.
I will rotate the engine by hand a few times first and see that the
pump doesn't pump in the stop position before I give it a go.
Regards
Alan

There are two sets of stuff available, the better set for assembly is in the
Articles section, look under 'Miscellaneous' or go straight to it:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/diesel1.htm


Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK
***@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

[Algernon]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:01:18 +0100, Prepair Ltd

Post by Prepair Ltd

Post by Algernon
I can't find the assy pics on your website, but I have checked against
the CAV manual. I think it is OK, but the timing marks on the rack
and pinion seem a little different from the ones shown.
I will rotate the engine by hand a few times first and see that the
pump doesn't pump in the stop position before I give it a go.
Regards
Alan

There are two sets of stuff available, the better set for assembly is in the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Articles/diesel1.htm
Peter

Yep, that's the way I did it except my rack has two dots which I
presume just show each side of the body when it is in the right
position.

Many thanks

Alan

[JW²]

Post by Prepair Ltd
If you think it is going to run away then better not start it in the first
place.
The exhaust valve lifter is probably the best thing initially, then get the
injector pipe off while it is running down, as sufficient fuel in the chamber
may cause problems if the revs are high enough and fuel is still coming in at
full throttle. . .
Peter

======
Good advice, Peter. I remember vividly a GM diesel which ran away, when
disaster was averted by my quick-thinking apprentice who immediately
covered the air-intake with his felt hat.

It nearly got sucked in, but luckily it was a proper felt Akubra and not
one of those useless baseball caps (which by the way, I hate - I have
had enough sun-cancers burnt off or cut out of the back of my neck, ears
and surrounding territory).

JW²
======

[Ken]

Shutting off the fuel supply on a runaway engine will not stop it if the
engine is worn and drawing engine oil past the piston rings into the
combustion chamber. What will happen in this case if the engine is not
stopped, will be that it will continue to run until it has no more oil, and
then destroys itself!

Sure way to stop it is to plug the air intake, with something like a cricket
ball, or discharge a CO2 extinguisher into the intake. Seems very peculiar
that no one using this forum knew that information!

k

Post by Algernon
Hope to try cranking up my CS this weekend. I have overhauled the
pump (totally seized...rack bent so it needed doing), and I have not
run it before.
Concern now is that it may be assembled wrong. Everything looked OK
although some of the timing marks weren't where they were supposed to
be. I think it is right, but just in case............
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CS IN A RUNAWAY SITUATION????
Possibilities being considered:-
1 Use the exhaust valve lifter. (Can this be done?)
2 Half open the compression changeover. (Will this stop the engine?)
3 Loosen the injector pipe (Can I find the spanner without panicking?)
I really don't want to put my foot in the flywheel :)
Alan
PS. See how optimistic I can be...I actually believe it might just
fire up :)
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
Great Speed, Great Retention
1 GB/Day for only $8.95

[Peter A Forbes]

Post by Ken
Shutting off the fuel supply on a runaway engine will not stop it if the
engine is worn and drawing engine oil past the piston rings into the
combustion chamber. What will happen in this case if the engine is not
stopped, will be that it will continue to run until it has no more oil, and
then destroys itself!
Sure way to stop it is to plug the air intake, with something like a cricket
ball, or discharge a CO2 extinguisher into the intake. Seems very peculiar
that no one using this forum knew that information!
k

Not peculiar at all, not many people keep cricket balls or CO2 extinguishers
handy, either at their place of work or in their home workshop.

If you had the standard Lister air intake with its ring of holes on about a 4"
PCD then you would have a job covering it with your hand. You certainly wouldn't
have time to find a spanner and take it off or unscrew it from the inlet stub.

As far as drawing oil up past the piston; while that is a possibility it is
unlikely that the engine would start in the first place if it was that worn. The
possibility does exist however, and it is fairly well documented.

The advice given was appropriate to the question asked.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: ***@easynet.co.uk
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

[Ken]

Post by Peter A Forbes

Post by Ken
Shutting off the fuel supply on a runaway engine will not stop it if the
engine is worn and drawing engine oil past the piston rings into the
combustion chamber. What will happen in this case if the engine is not
stopped, will be that it will continue to run until it has no more oil, and
then destroys itself!
Sure way to stop it is to plug the air intake, with something like a cricket
ball, or discharge a CO2 extinguisher into the intake. Seems very peculiar
that no one using this forum knew that information!
k

Not peculiar at all, not many people keep cricket balls or CO2
extinguishers
handy, either at their place of work or in their home workshop.
If you had the standard Lister air intake with its ring of holes on about a 4"
PCD then you would have a job covering it with your hand. You certainly wouldn't
have time to find a spanner and take it off or unscrew it from the inlet stub.
As far as drawing oil up past the piston; while that is a possibility it is
unlikely that the engine would start in the first place if it was that worn. The
possibility does exist however, and it is fairly well documented.
The advice given was appropriate to the question asked.
Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

Thing is the advice given just wouldnt work in certain circumstances, so
perhaps it would be better to bear this in mind, and post information that
would cover all possible permutations?
k

[Peter A Forbes]

Post by Ken
Thing is the advice given just wouldnt work in certain circumstances, so
perhaps it would be better to bear this in mind, and post information that
would cover all possible permutations?
k

Ken:

You KNOW that you cannot cover all possible permutations, don't worry the thing
to death.

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: ***@easynet.co.uk
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

[Ken]

Post by Peter A Forbes

Post by Ken
Thing is the advice given just wouldnt work in certain circumstances, so
perhaps it would be better to bear this in mind, and post information that
would cover all possible permutations?
k

You KNOW that you cannot cover all possible permutations, don't worry the thing
to death.
Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

Just dont feel its that helpful to post advice, which in some circumstances
wouldnt be of the slightest use, when there are alternatives that would
work..............

k

[Algernon]

Post by Ken
Shutting off the fuel supply on a runaway engine will not stop it if the
engine is worn and drawing engine oil past the piston rings into the
combustion chamber. What will happen in this case if the engine is not
stopped, will be that it will continue to run until it has no more oil, and
then destroys itself!
Sure way to stop it is to plug the air intake, with something like a cricket
ball, or discharge a CO2 extinguisher into the intake. Seems very peculiar
that no one using this forum knew that information!
k

Post by Algernon
Hope to try cranking up my CS this weekend. I have overhauled the
pump (totally seized...rack bent so it needed doing), and I have not
run it before.
Concern now is that it may be assembled wrong. Everything looked OK
although some of the timing marks weren't where they were supposed to
be. I think it is right, but just in case............
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO STOP A CS IN A RUNAWAY SITUATION????
Possibilities being considered:-
1 Use the exhaust valve lifter. (Can this be done?)
2 Half open the compression changeover. (Will this stop the engine?)
3 Loosen the injector pipe (Can I find the spanner without panicking?)
I really don't want to put my foot in the flywheel :)
Alan
PS. See how optimistic I can be...I actually believe it might just
fire up :)
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
Great Speed, Great Retention
1 GB/Day for only $8.95

This method was mentioned in an earlier thread. I will have a
suitable ball handy just in case, but as the only extinguisher I have
is a powder type I think I will give that a miss :)

Alan

[Kim Siddorn]

Wouldn't a tennis ball seal better? ;o))

Seriously though, a towel soaked in water would be easy to find & handy to
wrap around the inlet of almost anything - easier to find in an average
workshop than a cricket ball or a fire extinguisher, I suspect.

"But" said a small voice "Some of the water would get sucked in & dampen the
fire whilst improving the octane rating - wouldn't that make it run even
faster?"

Shut up, voice ............

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

[Richard H Huelin]

Post by Kim Siddorn
Wouldn't a tennis ball seal better? ;o))
Seriously though, a towel soaked in water would be easy to find & handy to
wrap around the inlet of almost anything - easier to find in an average
workshop than a cricket ball or a fire extinguisher, I suspect.
"But" said a small voice "Some of the water would get sucked in & dampen the
fire whilst improving the octane rating - wouldn't that make it run even
faster?"

I once saw a large rag placed over the air intake to stop a
run-away Ford Four cylinder diesel engined Atlas Copco
compressor, while it had the desired result and stopped the
engine. The only problem is that substantial pieces of rag
ended up in the cylinders and if I recall correctly all the
inlet valves needed replacing. I doubt that the Lister
would produce the same level of suction, but to be on the
safe side I suspect that a cricket ball would be a better
bet than a tennis ball.

[JW²]

but to be on the safe
side I suspect that a cricket ball would be a better bet than a tennis
ball.

But how many of us could bowl a cricket ball right into the air inlet
while peeping around the doorway?

JW²

[Kim Siddorn]

LOL! Very true - but I couldn't guarantee to serve a tennis ball into the
inlet either.

I could certainly get an arrow in there first pop, but that ain't going to
help much I suspect.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

Post by JW²

but to be on the safe side I suspect that a cricket ball would be a
better bet than a tennis ball.

But how many of us could bowl a cricket ball right into the air inlet
while peeping around the doorway?
JW²

[d***@codesmiths.com]

Post by Kim Siddorn
Wouldn't a tennis ball seal better? ;o))

Tennis balls will cheerfully suck themselves inside out and disappear
up the pipe. A conical wooden bung is the thing, on a chain to make
sure it can't be dropped or lost.

(At Cummins we had such a thing)