Generator wiring

[The wild eye]

I have recently purchased a Minigen powered by a Villiers f15
Loading Image...

It runs well and puts out power .

but it will only give me 110 volts.

on inspection it appears that at some point somebody has bypassed the
switch that changes the voltage and rewired it to a permanent 110
has anybody any idea where I can find a wiring diagram so I can try
and put it right

Steve

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by The wild eye
on inspection it appears that at some point somebody has bypassed the
switch that changes the voltage and rewired it to a permanent 110
has anybody any idea where I can find a wiring diagram so I can try
and put it right

Does it have a blue socket anywhere? Rewiring and putting 240v on a yellow
socket would be very dangerous. The two don't mate for obvious reasons.
You could of course permanently wire to to 240v and fit a blue socket.

The 240/110v switching is normally just a case of series(240) or
parallel(110) connection of the windings.

[The wild eye]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The wild eye
on inspection it appears that at some point somebody has bypassed the
switch that changes the voltage and rewired it to a permanent 110
has anybody any idea where I can find a wiring diagram so I can try
and put it right

Does it have a blue socket anywhere? Rewiring and putting 240v on a yellow
socket would be very dangerous. The two don't mate for obvious reasons.
You could of course permanently wire to to 240v and fit a blue socket.
The 240/110v switching is normally just a case of series(240) or
parallel(110) connection of the windings.
--
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

There is no blue socket just two yellow ones ( one on either side )

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by The wild eye
There is no blue socket just two yellow ones ( one on either side )

Well change one to blue and wire that to the switching such that it gets
240v and wire the yellow one such that it gets 110v and Robert is your
fathers brother.

I'd be inclined to chnage the one that doesn't have the exhaust firing at
it if 240v use is going to be the norm.

[The wild eye]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The wild eye
There is no blue socket just two yellow ones ( one on either side )

Well change one to blue and wire that to the switching such that it gets
240v and wire the yellow one such that it gets 110v and Robert is your
fathers brother.
I'd be inclined to chnage the one that doesn't have the exhaust firing at
it if 240v use is going to be the norm.
--
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Robert may well be my Aunty's husband but I believe that this machine
was originally produced with two yellow sockets .

Changing one to blue would be like painting a Lister D pink .

What I need to know is the wiring diagram so I can put it back in its
originall state ie switchable between 110v and 240v

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by The wild eye
Robert may well be my Aunty's husband but I believe that this machine
was originally produced with two yellow sockets .
Changing one to blue would be like painting a Lister D pink .
What I need to know is the wiring diagram so I can put it back in its
originall state ie switchable between 110v and 240v

If it ever had a 240v outlet it would have had a blue socket. The physical
construction (pin layout in relation to the keyway) of blue and yellow
sockets is different so you cannot connect 110v stuff to 240v or vice
versa. To make the gen have 240v on a yellow socket would be rather
unsafe.

Maybe the switch is non-orginal and did arrange the dangerous application
of 240v on a yellow socket?

[campingstoveman]

Totally agree Dave the standard is yellow 110 blue 240.

Martin P

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The wild eye
Robert may well be my Aunty's husband but I believe that this machine
was originally produced with two yellow sockets .
Changing one to blue would be like painting a Lister D pink .
What I need to know is the wiring diagram so I can put it back in its
originall state ie switchable between 110v and 240v

If it ever had a 240v outlet it would have had a blue socket. The physical
construction (pin layout in relation to the keyway) of blue and yellow
sockets is different so you cannot connect 110v stuff to 240v or vice
versa. To make the gen have 240v on a yellow socket would be rather
unsafe.
Maybe the switch is non-orginal and did arrange the dangerous application
of 240v on a yellow socket?
--
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

[The wild eye]

Post by campingstoveman
Totally agree Dave the standard is yellow 110 blue 240.

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The wild eye
Robert may well be my Aunty's husband but I believe that this machine
was originally produced with two yellow sockets .
Changing one to blue would be like painting a Lister D pink .
What I need to know is the wiring diagram so I can put it back in its
originall state ie switchable between 110v and 240v

If it ever had a 240v outlet it would have had a blue socket. The physical
construction (pin layout in relation to the keyway) of blue and yellow
sockets is different so you cannot connect 110v stuff to 240v or vice
versa. To make the gen have 240v on a yellow socket would be rather
unsafe.
Maybe the switch is non-orginal and did arrange the dangerous application
of 240v on a yellow socket?
--
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

I also agree that the standard is blue and yellow for different
voltage but this looks genuine to me
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

The two yellow sockets look like they have allways been there and so
does the switch

Steve

[Prepair Ltd]

Post by The wild eye
I also agree that the standard is blue and yellow for different
voltage but this looks genuine to me
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/Avandriver_photos/wiring2.jpg
The two yellow sockets look like they have allways been there and so
does the switch
Steve

The four leads from the generator internals are the outlets of two windings.

The two loops of wire, one brown and one blue are putting those two in parallel
to give 110V.

To give 240V, you need to take BOTH loops off the terminals and connection ONE
loop between the two middle terminals. The outer pair will then give 240V.

You can wire each of the two Yellow sockets to either of the two outer pairs of
terminals, and the 240V socket would go across the outer pair.


Start End Start End
X X X X

| 110V |--Link-- | 110V |

------------240V--------------

Note that for parallelling at 110V for full output, the two starts and the two
ends MUST be connected as per the original photograph.

As it stands above, the two 110V sockets will have 240V across the outer pins of
each, not a big problem but worth mentioning.

If you take one of the 110V sockets out and put a 240V socket in, I can send you
a connection diagram of how to wire it up with a change-over switch.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK
***@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

[Prepair Ltd]

Post by Prepair Ltd
The four leads from the generator internals are the outlets of two windings.

Taking the terminal block as viewed in the picture (No 2)

Label left to right A B C D

A and B are one winding C and D are the other.

The switch is 'probably' a double-pole change-over with 6 connections.

Centre common 1
Centre Common 2
Outer N/C 1
Outer N/C 2
Outer N/O 1
Outer N/O 2

Make sure the switch contacts are handed, ie all the 1's are on the same side!

Each socket:

240V L
240V N

110V1 L
110V1 N

110V2 L
110V2 N

Connect winding 'D' to Switch Centre Common 1 and 110V2 L.
Connect winding 'C' to 110V2 N, and Switch Centre Common 2.
Connect winding 'B' to 110V1 L, Switch Outer N/C 1 and Switch Outer N/O 2
Connect winding 'A' to 110V 1 N, 240V N and Switch Outer N/C 2.
Connect 240V L to Switch Outer N/O 1.

This disconnects the 240V socket on one pole in the 110V setting, but leaves
both 110V sockets fed at half power if 240V is selected.


Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK
***@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

[The wild eye]

Post by Prepair Ltd

Post by Prepair Ltd
The four leads from the generator internals are the outlets of two windings.

Taking the terminal block as viewed in the picture (No 2)
Label left to right A B C D
A and B are one winding C and D are the other.
The switch is 'probably' a double-pole change-over with 6 connections.
Centre common 1
Centre Common 2
Outer N/C 1
Outer N/C 2
Outer N/O 1
Outer N/O 2
Make sure the switch contacts are handed, ie all the 1's are on the same side!
240V L
240V N
110V1 L
110V1 N
110V2 L
110V2 N
Connect winding 'D' to Switch Centre Common 1 and 110V2 L.
Connect winding 'C' to 110V2 N, and Switch Centre Common 2.
Connect winding 'B' to 110V1 L, Switch Outer N/C 1 and Switch Outer N/O 2
Connect winding 'A' to 110V 1 N, 240V N and Switch Outer N/C 2.
Connect 240V L to Switch Outer N/O 1.
This disconnects the 240V socket on one pole in the 110V setting, but leaves
both 110V sockets fed at half power if 240V is selected.
Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK

Thank you Peter I will do that wiring when I have finished laying the
30 flags that my wife bought for me


Steve

[The wild eye]

Post by The wild eye

Post by Prepair Ltd

Post by Prepair Ltd
The four leads from the generator internals are the outlets of two windings.

Taking the terminal block as viewed in the picture (No 2)
Label left to right A B C D
A and B are one winding C and D are the other.
The switch is 'probably' a double-pole change-over with 6 connections.
Centre common 1
Centre Common 2
Outer N/C 1
Outer N/C 2
Outer N/O 1
Outer N/O 2
Make sure the switch contacts are handed, ie all the 1's are on the same side!
240V L
240V N
110V1 L
110V1 N
110V2 L
110V2 N
Connect winding 'D' to Switch Centre Common 1 and 110V2 L.
Connect winding 'C' to 110V2 N, and Switch Centre Common 2.
Connect winding 'B' to 110V1 L, Switch Outer N/C 1 and Switch Outer N/O 2
Connect winding 'A' to 110V 1 N, 240V N and Switch Outer N/C 2.
Connect 240V L to Switch Outer N/O 1.
This disconnects the 240V socket on one pole in the 110V setting, but leaves
both 110V sockets fed at half power if 240V is selected.
Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK

Thank you Peter I will do that wiring when I have finished laying the
30 flags that my wife bought for me
Steve

I have tried googling for some answers but came up with nothing .

The blue socket is an excitation socket

[Peter A Forbes]

Post by The wild eye
I have tried googling for some answers but came up with nothing .
The blue socket is an excitation socket

???

Could you expand on that answer please?

Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: ***@easynet.co.uk
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by Prepair Ltd
As it stands above,

With each 110v socket connected to each winding individually.

Post by Prepair Ltd
the two 110V sockets will have 240V across the outer pins of each, not a
big problem but worth mentioning.

I think more of aproblem will be that only one winding will be loaded if
only using one outlet and even if using both the chances of the load being
equal (unless you *carefully* join 'em outside) is minimal. I suspect this
could put due heat, electrical and mechanical stress on the windings.

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by The wild eye
I also agree that the standard is blue and yellow for different
voltage but this looks genuine to me
The two yellow sockets look like they have allways been there and so
does the switch

There doesn't seem enough ways on the switch to do the series/parallel
switching even if you only switch the little jumper wires and ignore the
little problem of 240v on a yellow socket.

What is that blue button for at the bottom and the rather iffy looking
soldering. On the LH side there is a bit of wire floating about with a
black blob on the end then thin bit of wire to the chassis? Is that a
<cough> fuse there appears to be something genuine on the other side in a
blue tube.

I assume you've tried googling on any makers/badge name and/or model
numbers etc for the alternator alone or set as a whole.

[The wild eye]

Post by Peter A Forbes

Post by The wild eye
I have tried googling for some answers but came up with nothing .
The blue socket is an excitation socket

???
Could you expand on that answer please?
Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Web:http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

That anwer was a reply to dave who asked if I had tried to google for
info .
He also asked "what is that little blue button at the bottom "

The little blue button at the bottom of the spec plate is labelled
"Excitation socket " why it is there I dont know because the generator
did not need any input volts to make it generate .


I have been out this evening and altered the wiring as your directions
and I now have got 240v at each socket .

At the moment the safety aspect of there being 240 volts at a yellow
socket is not an issue .
The Generator will only ever be used by me so I will know not to
connect any 110 volt equipment to it
However if at any time I relinquish ownership of it I will put it back
to 110 volts .



Steve

[Tim..]

Post by The wild eye

Post by Peter A Forbes

Post by The wild eye
I have tried googling for some answers but came up with nothing .
The blue socket is an excitation socket

???
Could you expand on that answer please?
Peter
--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Web:http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

That anwer was a reply to dave who asked if I had tried to google for
info .
He also asked "what is that little blue button at the bottom "
The little blue button at the bottom of the spec plate is labelled
"Excitation socket " why it is there I dont know because the generator
did not need any input volts to make it generate .
I have been out this evening and altered the wiring as your directions
and I now have got 240v at each socket .
At the moment the safety aspect of there being 240 volts at a yellow
socket is not an issue .
The Generator will only ever be used by me so I will know not to
connect any 110 volt equipment to it

As it now stands, you have it wired as such that you have 110v-N-110v - i.e.
a floating neutral. For using power tools and the like, 'on location' this
is fine, and reasonably safe, and does NOT require use of an earth stake.
However, an RCD will not correctly work if used, as it has no earth
reference.

If you wish to use the machine more in anger, and for reference if you come
across larger gens used onsite for instance, with RCD's they should ALWAYS
have the N and E coupled, a sticker saying so present, and an earth rod MUST
be used.

Tim..

[Genme1]

replying to Tim.., Genme1 wrote:
well that's just answered the question i was going to ask i have a b&s 5hp
with a 1.5 kva gen on it was not working when i got it so have been working on
it when i tuck the front off the dg power point the N was wired to the Earth
was not sure if this was right but now sounds like it should be